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| Which schedule do you prefer? |
| A (£100 Main Event) |
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22% |
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| B (£60 Main Event) |
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77% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 9 |
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The Scottish Student Poker Championship 2008 (SSPC) |
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 Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:07 pm |
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| Andrew Ferguson |
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| Joined: 14 Oct 2007 |
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| Location: Edinburgh |
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Next year the Edinburgh University and Heriot-Watt Poker Societies will run the inaugural Scottish Student Poker Championship. The provisional dates for running the SSPC are 26th-30th March 2008 (Wed-Sun), the week following good Friday.
Because we want this event to have the best turnout and structure possible this thread will serve as a point for students across the UK to discuss the event, helping us decide exactly what tournaments to run. Recent discussion between the two societies' committee members (Me, Will, Henning etc) has focused on the buy-in size for the main event and the consequences different choices have.
In this poll I have presented some choices that reflect the different directions we can take the event. These are by no means the only choices we will entertain and I would like to encourage as many people as possible to contribute their opinions fully by replying in this thread.
Option A (High buy-in)
Date Event Buyin Levels Stacks
26/03 No Limit Hold'em £30+£3 40m 100bb
27/03 Pot Limit Omaha £30+£3 40m 100bb
28/03 No Limit Hold'em Rebuy £10+£1 30m 40bb
29/03 No Limit Hold'em £100+£10 60m 200bb
30/03 ME Day 2
This option is for higher buy-in events than has generally been seen in the student poker world. One of the main selling points of this option is that the main event (the £100 tournament) would be fully dealer dealt for every table for the entire tournament. The prize pool could potentially be higher and it would help generate publicity for student poker in general. A good turnout for this option would probably be reliant on satellites being run by poker societies for their members. We would also run online satellites to the tournament for everyone to take part in (eg 5$ or 10$ rebuys).
Total buy-ins: £187 (170+17) + Rebuys
Option B
Date Event Buyin Levels Stacks
26/03 No Limit Hold'em £20+£2 40m 100bb
27/03 Pot Limit Omaha £20+£2 40m 100bb
28/03 No Limit Hold'em Rebuy £5+£0.50 30m 40bb
29/03 No Limit Hold'em £60+£6 60m 200bb
30/03 ME Day 2
Essentially the same as above, but with buy-ins more in line with existing student poker events. It's highly unlikely that the main event would be dealer dealt, although like all the tournaments we will be running regardless of the buy-in the final table will have a dealer.
Total buy-ins: £115.5 (105+10.5) + Rebuys
Personally I would like is to run high buy-in events that are really meaningful, with people satelliting in as much as possible. Others disagree, that's why we are having this discussion. I do think it's rather daft that for most student poker events people spend more on beer than the tournament they're playing in.
Other things we want to hear about are whether or not you think it's a good idea to be running more than one tournament, should we run more than 4? Are people burning deep inside for a PL Razz donkament?
Edit: I forgot to say that everything will be hosted at Circus Casino here in Edinburgh.
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"If you call, I'll show." |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:43 pm |
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| Alex |
| Five of a Kind |
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| Location: Douglas, Isle of Man |
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This looks great - shame I won't be around to play in it.
I did however vote for Option B, just because I think you have to be very careful not to price out students from other universities - remember that they have the added costs of travel and accommodation to consider too.
One other point is regarding the structures - listing the length of the levels and size of starting stacks isn't really useful unless you have decided on what blind levels you'll be using. I think most people would rather play in an event that had gradual increases in the blinds, even if that meant smaller starting stacks (sure you know this already so sorry if that sounds patronising!).
Regarding variety - you currently have three No Limit Hold'em tourneys, two freezeouts and a rebuy. I understand that NLHE is what draws people to the event, so I've no objection to that. But have you considered changing the first event for a shootout or heads up event, rather than just a freezeout?
All in all this looks excellent and it's great to see Edinburgh and Heriot-Watt finally working together on a big event. |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:41 pm |
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| Grunter |
| HW Legend |
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Posts: 660
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| Location: Aberdonian |
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didnt st andrews run the scottish champs for the past 3/4 years after they kept winning the damd thing with us getting 2nd! different format granted.
Sounds cool tho - non students allowed to play? |
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It's not how you play the game that counts, it's whether you win or lose that matters |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:55 pm |
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| Quote: | Sounds cool tho - non students allowed to play?
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When I spoke to andrew about this I said that non studnets and especially previous students should definately be allowed to play, I voted for a £100 buy in, its a main event, it only happens once a year so having a larger than average buy in is a must. On lots of the forums and in plenty of cash games you hear dozens of players complaing about the crapshooty nature of casino tourneys, so if you can pony up £30 every week to play a crapshoot then why not put up £100 for a good tourney. Time for most players calling for longer tourneys and better structures to put up or shut up.
Also the St Andrews structure for the UKSPC last year was horrible, and I prob wont play in it this year if its the same, just a total crapshoot for day 2.
Circus poker room holds 100+ players then a deepstack tourney withn a 10k + prizepool, 60minute levels being totally delaer dealt should attract some pretty decent players and some of the standard casino donks |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:58 pm |
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| Andrew Ferguson |
| Pair |
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| Joined: 14 Oct 2007 |
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| Location: Edinburgh |
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| Alex wrote: | This looks great - shame I won't be around to play in it.
I did however vote for Option B, just because I think you have to be very careful not to price out students from other universities - remember that they have the added costs of travel and accommodation to consider too. |
Actually, one of the reasons I think that we shouldn't be too afraid to increase the buy-in is that when you take travel, food, drink, and accommodation into account the proportional increase in cost is relatively small.
| Alex wrote: | | One other point is regarding the structures - listing the length of the levels and size of starting stacks isn't really useful unless you have decided on what blind levels you'll be using. I think most people would rather play in an event that had gradual increases in the blinds, even if that meant smaller starting stacks (sure you know this already so sorry if that sounds patronising!). |
Blinds are something that obviously need to be discussed and have to take into consideration time limitations and field size. This is the sort of thing I have in mind at the moment for the main event (which will be over two days, here's my proposal for the first day of blinds)
Day 1
Blinds Start Time
25/50 12:00
50/100 13:00
75/150 14:00
Break 15:00
100/200 15:30
150/300 16:30
200/400 17:30
Break 18:30
300/600/50 19:00
400/800/50 20:00
| Alex wrote: | | Regarding variety - you currently have three No Limit Hold'em tourneys, two freezeouts and a rebuy. I understand that NLHE is what draws people to the event, so I've no objection to that. But have you considered changing the first event for a shootout or heads up event, rather than just a freezeout? |
These are exactly the kind of suggestions I want to hear.
| Alex wrote: | | All in all this looks excellent and it's great to see Edinburgh and Heriot-Watt finally working together on a big event. |
I agree, most cities only have one poker society and so we should take full advantage that we have two fully fledged societies here.
| Grunter wrote: | didnt st andrews run the scottish champs for the past 3/4 years after they kept winning the damd thing with us getting 2nd! different format granted.
Sounds cool tho - non students allowed to play? |
They ran the UKSPC. Basically they just took that name first. This is a whole new event. Isn't the UKSPC moving to Birmingham or something this year? I may have heard wrong but we might not be directly competing with St Andrews if this is true.
Also, casino tournaments aren't legally allowed to restrict who enters them (or so I've been told by card room staff at circus) so non students can of course play. I'm not bothered by this personally since I can't imagine there ever being more non-students than students participating, especially in the weekday tournaments. |
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"If you call, I'll show." |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:01 pm |
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| Grunter |
| HW Legend |
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| Location: Aberdonian |
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| no they did run an event called the scottish champs held in term 1 - they had a team theme with heads up single table and multitable events running thro the day |
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It's not how you play the game that counts, it's whether you win or lose that matters |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:02 pm |
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| BigD |
| HW Legend |
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| Joined: 23 Sep 2005 |
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| Location: Edinburgh |
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I can't say for definate Re: last year but definately the two previous years they have had the "Scittish Uni Championships" which has been a team event with a MTT counting for individuals and teams.
Why not call it something like the Edinburgh Student Open or something like that or the Circus Student Open? |
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"There's no such thing as bad beats, just bad plays that get lucky. Poker is a godless game, full of random pain." |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:03 pm |
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| Andrew Ferguson |
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| Joined: 14 Oct 2007 |
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| Location: Edinburgh |
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| Grunter wrote: | | no they did run an event called the scottish champs held in term 1 - they had a team theme with heads up single table and multitable events running thro the day |
A bit of googling leads me to find they ran something called the "Inter-Scottish University Championships" so it doesn't look like we've run into a direct name clash there. Hopefully.
Edit: In any case Edinburgh is the capital of Scotland, so screw St Andrews  |
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"If you call, I'll show." |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:06 pm |
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| BigD |
| HW Legend |
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| Joined: 23 Sep 2005 |
Posts: 1035
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| Location: Edinburgh |
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| Just a thought, have you checked when the UKSP champs are? |
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"There's no such thing as bad beats, just bad plays that get lucky. Poker is a godless game, full of random pain." |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:11 pm |
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| Andrew Ferguson |
| Pair |
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| Location: Edinburgh |
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| BigD wrote: | | Just a thought, have you checked when the UKSP champs are? |
"The situation at the moment is that the UKSPC 2008 will be moved down to a more central location, probably somewhere like Manchester, Birmingham or Nottingham. The actual venue is still to be finalised but the event will take place in a proper card room but obviously this will cost money and will have to be added to the entrance fee, likely to be of the order of £30+£3 to enter. The tournament will be held over three days, provisionally from the 4th-6th April, with a Day 1a/b and Day 2 structure like the UKSPC 2007. "
Looks like it'll be the next week. They're capping it at 600 entrants apparently, we're not looking at anywhere near those numbers (more like ~100 people) and they only run one £30 tournament so I figure we're attracting a more high-end field than they are.
There's plenty of these low buy-in events and the UKSPC is naturally the most well established and largest by numbers. We can inhabit a different part of the market. |
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"If you call, I'll show." |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:14 pm |
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| BigD |
| HW Legend |
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| Joined: 23 Sep 2005 |
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| Location: Edinburgh |
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| The problem you may have is the UK Champs are well the UK champs + they have the WSOP seat. |
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"There's no such thing as bad beats, just bad plays that get lucky. Poker is a godless game, full of random pain." |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:24 pm |
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| Alex |
| Five of a Kind |
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| Joined: 23 Sep 2005 |
Posts: 1134
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| Location: Douglas, Isle of Man |
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| Andrew Ferguson wrote: | | screw St Andrews |
Here here. I don't think your event necessarily has to compete with St. Andrews event anyway - in an ideal world they would complement each other. |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:40 pm |
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| Andrew Ferguson |
| Pair |
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| Location: Edinburgh |
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| Alex wrote: | | Andrew Ferguson wrote: | | screw St Andrews |
Here here. I don't think your event necessarily has to compete with St. Andrews event anyway - in an ideal world they would complement each other. |
You work in some way for Pokerstars a bit right? What's your assessment of the chance of getting some form of sponsorship from them? |
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"If you call, I'll show." |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:49 pm |
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| Card Rack |
| Royal Flush |
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| Joined: 03 Oct 2005 |
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| Location: Back In Edinburgh |
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| Andrew Ferguson wrote: | | You work in some way for Pokerstars a bit right? What's your assessment of the chance of getting some form of sponsorship from them? |
Not sure the casino would allow it, even if they would sponsor it. Depends I guess, the casinos like gala wouldn't as they have their own online poker rooms and so won't advertise rivals. |
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"Life Is What Happens To You While You're Busy Making Other Plans" - John Lennon |
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:01 pm |
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| Andrew Ferguson |
| Pair |
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| Card Rack wrote: | | Andrew Ferguson wrote: | | You work in some way for Pokerstars a bit right? What's your assessment of the chance of getting some form of sponsorship from them? |
Not sure the casino would allow it, even if they would sponsor it. Depends I guess, the casinos like gala wouldn't as they have their own online poker rooms and so won't advertise rivals. |
I've already spoke to both the card room manager and casino manager at Circus and they're fine with it. Circus is a Stanley and as far as I know they're not affiliated with any online network. |
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"If you call, I'll show." |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:19 pm |
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| Andrew |
| Three of a Kind |
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Just got an email off sheffield uni. there main event aka. the UKSPC is running the same weekend we planning this...
This is really gonna damage the attendance.
Also not sure about the buy in. put the lower one in as its going to be run over 4 days thats atleast 200 quid in accomidation and food.
Its also at the need of a term when most students have really low funds...
Andrew |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:19 pm |
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| Andrew Ferguson |
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| Location: Edinburgh |
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| Andrew wrote: | Just got an email off sheffield uni. there main event aka. the UKSPC is running the same weekend we planning this...
This is really gonna damage the attendance.
Also not sure about the buy in. put the lower one in as its going to be run over 4 days thats atleast 200 quid in accomidation and food.
Its also at the need of a term when most students have really low funds...
Andrew |
Can you post that here, if that's true obviously we'll have to reconsider our timing. |
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"If you call, I'll show." |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:24 pm |
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| Andrew |
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Got this off st andrews:
It sounds like a good idea, I was just wondering whether you were going to holdthe event over Easter Break or the weekend of Easter? The UK Student PokerChampionships is over Easter Break (the first week of April) so if you'rethinking of holding it then maybe you should re-consider as you won't get asgood a turnout as you'd hope. Also the buyin of £100 is quite steep and given that most students would have totravel up and find accomadation for at least a night or two, it gets expensivefast.
They also said to put this info onto:
http://www.ukstudentpoker.com/
andrew |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:40 pm |
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| adam |
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Hi all,
Good to hear about another big event being organised. I'd reccomend the £60 buyin. Accomodation, food, travel and booze costs all add up and I think £100 would be alot for most students to put up on top of these costs.
I'm definately 100% biased on this one, but i'd rather you didn't run this at the same time as the UKSPC. The UKSPC is running the 1st-4th of April. It would be a pity to make people choose between one or the other as I think its perfectly feasible for both to exist without them being in competition with each other. On that note you guys might want to contact Dundee poker society so they dont organise a tournament on the same dates you guys are using.
As for the whole name thing, using Scottish Student Poker Championship is fine with us. We host the Scottish inter unis (sat 24th of november this year if you guys are intrested ) and the names are quite clearly distinguishalbe.
I dont think non students should be able to play. I just dont see how it can be called the Scottish student poker championship if non students can play. That means you could end up with a Scottish student poker champion who isn't a student.
Anyways, good luck organising the tournament and hopefully some of us can make the short trip over to play.
Adam
USAPS President |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:23 pm |
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| Andrew Ferguson |
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| Joined: 14 Oct 2007 |
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| Location: Edinburgh |
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| adam wrote: | Hi all,
Good to hear about another big event being organised. I'd reccomend the £60 buyin. Accomodation, food, travel and booze costs all add up and I think £100 would be alot for most students to put up on top of these costs.
I'm definately 100% biased on this one, but i'd rather you didn't run this at the same time as the UKSPC. The UKSPC is running the 1st-4th of April. It would be a pity to make people choose between one or the other as I think its perfectly feasible for both to exist without them being in competition with each other. On that note you guys might want to contact Dundee poker society so they dont organise a tournament on the same dates you guys are using.
As for the whole name thing, using Scottish Student Poker Championship is fine with us. We host the Scottish inter unis (sat 24th of november this year if you guys are intrested ) and the names are quite clearly distinguishalbe.
I dont think non students should be able to play. I just dont see how it can be called the Scottish student poker championship if non students can play. That means you could end up with a Scottish student poker champion who isn't a student.
Anyways, good luck organising the tournament and hopefully some of us can make the short trip over to play.
Adam
USAPS President |
I think that a date move is definitely going to happen. We should try and find out more about term times, obviously a several day long event can't take place when people have lectures and exams. What do people think of pushing it back into June, when people are finished?
With regards to non-students playing, I have previously been informed by card room staff at Circus that they can't stop other people from registering in tournaments by law. I'll have to get clarification on this from the casino. |
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"If you call, I'll show." |
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:01 pm |
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| adam |
| Nut Low |
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| Joined: 24 Oct 2007 |
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| Andrew Ferguson wrote: | | With regards to non-students playing, I have previously been informed by card room staff at Circus that they can't stop other people from registering in tournaments by law. I'll have to get clarification on this from the casino. |
The Scottish inter unis is being held in the gala casino in Dundee this year, and we're allowed to only allow students to enter. Maybe it's just one of those grey areas. Either way I guess students will likely far out number non students.
Does that mean you're inviting people from all over the UK or just Scotland? |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:53 am |
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| Andrew Ferguson |
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| adam wrote: | | Andrew Ferguson wrote: | | With regards to non-students playing, I have previously been informed by card room staff at Circus that they can't stop other people from registering in tournaments by law. I'll have to get clarification on this from the casino. |
The Scottish inter unis is being held in the gala casino in Dundee this year, and we're allowed to only allow students to enter. Maybe it's just one of those grey areas. Either way I guess students will likely far out number non students.
Does that mean you're inviting people from all over the UK or just Scotland? |
All over, it's the Scottish [Student Poker Championship] rather than the Scottish Students' Poker Championship. |
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"If you call, I'll show." |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:24 pm |
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| Grunter |
| HW Legend |
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| Joined: 30 Sep 2005 |
Posts: 660
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| Location: Aberdonian |
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| you should get together an make some sort of series with points carrying over from each event - chris tried to get that going when he was president - would have been cool! |
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It's not how you play the game that counts, it's whether you win or lose that matters |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:27 pm |
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| adam |
| Nut Low |
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| Grunter wrote: | | you should get together an make some sort of series with points carrying over from each event - chris tried to get that going when he was president - would have been cool! |
Sounds like a good idea, would be cool to see what players are regulary cashing at the inter uni events (and it might encourage more people to travel to them, expecially when bragging rights are involved). I think calculating it on prize money would be the easiest option (at least in the first year).
Events which are included would have to be open to all student players in the UK (which would rule out the Scottish inter unis). Off the top of my head, and assuming these are still happening, that would include,
Scottish student poker championships (SSPC)
UK student poker championships (UKSPC)
Dundee series of poker (DSOP)
Warwick series of poker (WaSOP)
Sheffield series of poker (SSOP)
Durham open
Reading series of poker
Oxford cup
That would give us 8 tournaments in which to run the leaderboard over. If we could get all the societies to agree to take the names and university of everyone entering and wether or not they made any money this would be pretty easy to do.
The main thing is getting date from everyone as to when these tournaments are going to be held, if we can get that sorted then theres no reason not to do something like this. |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:41 pm |
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| Alex |
| Five of a Kind |
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| Joined: 23 Sep 2005 |
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| Location: Douglas, Isle of Man |
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It's a great idea but requires a lot of co-operation from each society. I really hope you can get something together though.
| Quote: | | With regards to non-students playing, I have previously been informed by card room staff at Circus that they can't stop other people from registering in tournaments by law. |
My guess is that this is a discrimination law misinterpreted. For example, the Circus couldn't stop someone registering for a tournament on the basis that they were black, female, gay, disabled, ugly etc. But they should be allowed to have private events - they do it for corporate functions all the time.
| Quote: | | You work in some way for Pokerstars a bit right? What's your assessment of the chance of getting some form of sponsorship from them? |
To be honest, poor. Most of the relationships between online cardrooms and student poker have failed miserably in the past. PokerStars, WPT Online, Ladbrokes, Betfred, and Victor Chandler, Landora, and many others all tried it, and only Betfred and VC got something out of it. I doubt many sites are interested in working with students at the moment - and they know that when people write in asking for 'sponsorship', all they really want is free money or merchandise.
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